Joseph and Amelia Saull married 16/06/1839

[ruthclaresaull]

I would like to contact anyone descended from Joseph and Amelia they are my 2xg grandparents. Joseph was born in 1811 Warwickshire, Amelia much younger born in 1826 the daughter of James and Amy Oates from London. Joseph was a shoe maker I believe he worked for Amy because on the census she is shown as head.

[John Slaughter]

Ruth

Have you obtained a copy of the 1839 marriage certificate? If so I would be interested in the details it gives of the name of Joseph's father and his occupation. This might help us to find a possible link to the Warwickshire Saul(l)s. Incidentally who have stated that Amelia was born in 1826. That would mean she married at age 13!!

Are you connected to one of our Society members Darryl, who is also a descendant of Joseph and Amelia?

John Slaughter

[ruthclaresaull]

Hi John, yes I have a copy of the 1839 marriage certificate of Joseph and Amelia. His father's name was James and occupation Cooper, I found a James Saul aged 75 married to Joanna, living in Priors Marston, Warwick in the 1841 census. whether it was a mispelling, the 2nd L being dropped or not, being a Saull my self I know I had to constantly spell my name for people or I would be recorded as Saul, Sewel or even Soul!

No I haven't been in contact with Darryl, although I have been in contact with a couple of people through genesreunited. I would be willing to send a copy of the marriage certificate to anyone interested.

Ruth

PS Yes I did get Amelia's birth year wrong, it should be 1820 according to the 1851 census.

PPS!! I have just gone into genesreunited and realised that I have been in contact with Darryl's wife Jaqui? It was she that put the link in with me, descended from William Saull and Darryl from Joseph Saull. Both children of Joseph and Amelia. I would dearly love to find out about Joseph's ancestry, I have put James as married to Elizabeth Abbey because I found a marriage record on the LDS site, but it's not proven and I realise now that quite a few people have taken that as fact by looking at my tree.

[John Slaughter]

Ruth

Thanks for the information from the marriage certificate, this is interesting.

From my research I have found that a lot of the Saulls, of the double LL variety, can be traced back to Byfield in Northamptonshire. These Saulls were mostly coopers by trade so there is a strong possibility of some connection with Joseph's father. However I can offer no obvious candidate. As far as I know on the census returns Joseph only ever stated that his place of birth was Warwickshire, and did not specify a place name.

The James at Priors Marston is probably not Joseph's father as there is no evidence that he had a son Joseph. Interestingly James's father William was born in Byfield but went to Priors Marston in the 1740's, probably before the extra "L" was added so he remained a Saul.

I would be interested hearing of your descent from Joseph and Amelia. It would probably be better to send me the information by private e-mail rather than post it here, particularly for the more recent generations. You will find my e-mail address in the Contacts section at our main website at www.sole.org.uk (http://www.sole.org.uk) or click on my name above

[blondprincess100]

Hello everyone

I started researching my family tree about 6months ago and have discovered that I am a descendent of Joseph Saull + Amelia Oates. They are my 4* great grandparents on my mothers side.

I too though am struggling to find out much about their ancestors - only their respective father's names from the Marriage Certificate. It's so annoying Joseph's specific birth place in Warwickshire isn't mentioned - their daugher Amelia Saull (who is also my ancestor born in Hackney 1840) married a chap called William Heritage. Funnily enough he too was from warwickshire (Fillongley) and I've been able to track his parents via the Warwickshire Record Office.

I'll keep an eye on this forum going fwd in case anyone finds out anything, and of course if I will let you know if I have any luck.

[blondprincess100]

Hello everyone

I started researching my family tree about 6months ago and have discovered that I am a descendent of Joseph Saull + Amelia Oates. They are my 4* great grandparents on my mothers side.

I too though am struggling to find out much about their ancestors - only their respective father's names from the Marriage Certificate. It's so annoying Joseph's specific birth place in Warwickshire isn't mentioned - their daugher Amelia Saull (who is also my ancestor born in Hackney 1840) married a chap called William Heritage. Funnily enough he too was from warwickshire (Fillongley) and I've been able to track his parents via the Warwickshire Record Office.

I'll keep an eye on this forum going fwd in case anyone finds out anything, and of course I will let you know if I have any luck.

[ruthclaresaull]

Hi, I have a marriage certificate of Joseph and Amelia if you would like a copy. I am descended from William Saull their son born 4/4/1846. Joseph died 18/7/1884 he was living with his son Joseph but died in an Infirmary. I haven't been able to find Amelia's death yet. Her parents Amelia and James Oats are recorded as being born in Jaunhist I haven't got very far with finding out where that is but it may be in France! Were they Hugueonots? I have searched the various websites but not found Oates but they may have changed Anglocised it.

[John Slaughter]

It is highly likely that the parents of Joseph are James Saull and his wife Mary who baptised six children at Napton on the Hill, Warwickshire between 1801 and 1813, including a Joseph on 15 July 1810. I suspect that the whole family later moved to the London area, though I have no information as to what became of James and Mary subsequently.

As regards Joseph's wife Amelia, it may well be that her death in that recorded in the September 1854 quarter, West London Registration District, Vol 1c, Page 37. Clearly obtaining the certificate will confirm or otherwise.

[blondprincess100]

Hi John - I did quite a bit of research on Amelia's Saull's death and reached the same conclusion as you, she died in 1854. There's a burial record on ancestry.com from Hackney which has a record for Amelia Saull who was listed as 35 at time of death. Not sure if I'm allowed to post links here but have anyway!:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=lmadeaths&h=9416731&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t13505726_p-28393125_g32768

That would tie in with the BMD ref you have above (Jul-Aug-Sep).

Very interesting about Joseph's birth details - how did you find that ? Certainly sounds possible - right period, correct father's name etc.

Cat

[blondprincess100]

Hi Ruthclare

Tks for the offer of a cert copy but I *think* I have that one already (will check when I get home on the weekend). So here's a bit of research I've done on James Oates and his wife Amey (Amy). A lot of this is guess work and some pure conjecture but I think there are some reasonably valid links in here. So here goes!

- In the Census records I’ve found for Amey Oates (or Amy – both are referred to) she has a birth date of around 1791 in all references. So I presume that date is pretty sound.

- I found a Pallot’s Marriage Index from 1809 at Christchurch Newgate London. The names are Jas Oates and Amey Tyler (would put her at about 18yrs old). I think a lot of historic records shortened James to Jas. We know Amelia Oates (Saull) was born in London in 1819 in Shoreditch.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=pallotm&h=1124160&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t13505726_p-23784622_g32770

- The corresponding Bann record from the same parish was really difficult to find. Instead of saying Jas or James Oates it has been recorded as James Bates. But the record is for 1809 and exactly the same Parish + Amey’s name has been spelt consistently. I would therefore conclude that the Pallot and Bann record are for the same couple. I haven’t been able to find the actual marriage certificate from the parish (if there is one).
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=lmamarriages&h=1219702&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t13505726_p-23784622_g32770

So if these assumptions are correct, Amey’s surname is Tyler.

I also have a possible lead on James Oates death - this burial record has him listed as residing at White Bear Gardens in Hackney at the time of death in 1829. Listed as aged 49 it would put his birth around the 1780s:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1559&iid=31547_212668-00105&fn=James&ln=Oates&st=r&ssrc=&pid=10101970

Possible death record for Amey Oates also; states birth year was 1790 which is right, name is correct and location was Shoreditch (again consistent).

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=freebmddeath&h=25020978&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t13505726_p-23784622_g32770

I know the 1851 census refers to that Jaunhist place, but the 1841 and 1861 refers to Amey’s birth place as Middlesex (London).

Anyway – sorry this went on a bit – but would very much appreciate your opinions / comments on the above.
Tks,
Cat

[John Slaughter]

Hi Cat

I don't have access to Ancestry so can not read the Amelia burial entry, though your comment that she was 35 years of age ties in well.

Linking Joseph to the Napton on Hill baptism is, of course, not proven but the surrounding evidence makes this highly likely. Making these connections demonstates the value of the Society. If you are not already a member perhaps you would consider joining.