Isaac Sawle from Gerrans Cornwall abt 1828

[Anne P]

I am currently attempting to trace my family tree back and have evidence of a line through my paternal grandmother to Isaac Sawle born abt 1828 in Gerrans Cornwall.

He left the area and married Caroline ? and had his first 2 children whilst in the Isle of Wight ( Mary Ann Sawle b abt 1853 and George Manley Sawle b abt 1855). The family then moved to Liverpool as the 1861 census shows the family living in West Derby in Liverpool with further children Samuel John Sawle b abt 1857/8, Susan Sawle b abt 1859 and later Catharine Sawle b abt 1861. By 1871 the family had moved to the Toxteth area of Liverpool.

I am a direct descendent of Mary Ann Sawle and would love to know if anyone has any additional information about this family or their ancestors. I also note that there are a lot of Sawles who moved from Cornwall to Liverpool - can this be a co-incidence.

[John Slaughter]

Anne

Isaac Sawle was baptised Isaac Behanna Sawle at Gerrans on 14 December 1828, the son of John Sawle and Susanna (nee Behanna). I have a few details about Isaac from one of our Society members, Derek Sawle, who is also researching this family. It would appear that Isaac married twice and that Derek is a descendant of the second marriage. Details are however a little sketchy so I would be interested in anything more you can tell me about Isaac and his family. If Derek is not known to you I would be happy to pass on his contact details.

Isaac appears on the largest chart that the Society has for the Sawles of Cornwall and which currently contains over 250 individuals. There were Sawles at Gerrans as far back as the 1500s.

[Anne P]

Anne

Isaac Sawle was baptised Isaac Behanna Sawle at Gerrans on 14 December 1828, the son of John Sawle and Susanna (nee Behanna). I have a few details about Isaac from one of our Society members, Derek Sawle, who is also researching this family. It would appear that Isaac married twice and that Derek is a descendant of the second marriage. Details are however a little sketchy so I would be interested in anything more you can tell me about Isaac and his family. If Derek is not known to you I would be happy to pass on his contact details.

Isaac appears on the largest chart that the Society has for the Sawles of Cornwall and which currently contains over 250 individuals. There were Sawles at Gerrans as far back as the 1500s.
Thankyou for your speedy response.
All the information I have is based on online Census and BMD information. I traced the birth certificate of my Nana which I received earlier this week and have been looking for further information since then.

To date I have discovered the following.
Eric Russell Williams b 25.4.1926 (my Dad) and elder brother John Raymond Williams b 22.4.1917 born to John Henry Williams b 8.6.1871 and Gertrude Hannah Sims b 14.7.1891 in the Mount Pleasant district of Liverpool. They married on 23.4.1916.

Gertrude Hannah Sims was the daughter of Joshua Sims b 1848 in Derbyshire and Mary Hannah Sims (nee Sawle) b abt Sept 1852 in Ventnor on the Isle of White. Mary Hannah Sawle and Joshua Sims married in West Derby in Liverpool in the 4th quarter in 1873 - her name in the register was Mary Anna Sawle. They had two other children at the time of the 1881 census , Robert William Sims abt 1875, Caroline Manley/Marely Sims abt 1877.

The 1871 census shows Mary Ann Sawle living with her family in the Toxteth area of Liverpool and in 1861 they were living in West Derby. Both Censuses have her listed as the eldest daugher of Isaac Sawle abt 1828 from Gerrans and Caroline Sawle (nee??) abt1832 born in Exmouth. Other siblings to Mary were, George Manley Sawle b abt Sept 1854 on the Isle of Wight, Samuel John Sawle abt 1858 in Liverpool and Susan Sawle abt June 1859 in Liverpool. Both Censuses show Isaac Sawle as a Joiner.

I have found note of a marriage of Isaac Behenna Sawle in Oct/Nov/Dec 1851 taking place in the Isle of White (no confirmation of the name of his bride yet, but I presume this is to Caroline). I presume after the first 2 children they then moved from the Isle of White to Liverpool where their subsequent children were born.

I have the 1861 and 1871 census which shows the family together in Liverpool. I have found a registry of Death for a Caroline Sawle in 1874 (Q3), and a subsequent marriage of an Isaac Sawle to Sarah (either Watson or Anderson - not followed this up) in December 1876 in the Birkenhead area.

I have not seen the 1881 census but by 1891 they have an entry in the Walton on the hill district of Bootle with 6 children, Ellen (age 13), Charles (age 12), Ethel (age 10), Edith (age 9), Emma (age 5) and James (age 2). The first 4 children were born in Liscard in Cheshire and the latter 2 in Walton on the Hill. Isaac continued to be a joiner.

I am amazed I have found out this much in such a short space of time and if, as you say, the Gerrans line of Sawle goes back further then I will have a lot to tell my family.

Anne

[John Slaughter]

Anne

Many thanks for your very useful further information. I can tell you that our member Derek Sawle, who I referred to earlier, is a descendant of the Charles Sawle born in 1879. I have sent Derek an e-mail to make him aware of this discussion and hope that he will join in. If you would like to contact him direct please send me an e-mail and I will give his contact details. You will find my e-mail address on the main Sole Society website under "Contacts".

[Derek Sawle]

Hi Anne,

John emailed me to say you were a decendant of Isaac Sawle. I have to say like you the Sole Society provided me with a substantial amount of information and over the last few years i have been able to build on it from my own research. My goal was to track back as far as i could the Cornish Sawles.

I am the decendant of Issac Sawle and Sarah Anderson, an American from Baltimore (picked up from the census) married 14-12-1876 which was Issacs second marrage. Issac and Sarah had 8 children, Charles bn 1878 Ethel bn 1880, Edith bn 1882, Ellen (Sarah Ellen) bn 1877, Emma bn 1886, William bn 1883, Nellie bn 1878 and James bn 1889. Charles was my grandfather.

I have a certified copy of the marriage certificate between Issac and Sarah.

His first marrage with Caroline on the Isle of White was an unconfirmed record I came across almost by accident and that was as much as I knew so your information is really interesting. I was especially interested to find out that they moved to Liverpool to Toxteth. Both marriages would seem to have started the only two lines of Sawles in Liverpool. I knew there was another line in Liverpool but unsure of its origins. This would explain it.

This line of Sawles go back to Gerrans in Cornwall beyond documented records. I visited the village of Gerrans in summer of last year and met a distant cousin who was able to provide me with a lot of information and a local historian who lives in nearby Portscathoe who was equally as helpfull.

The local church there has many on my ancestors (and yours i guess) buried there. I was also shown round a farm house called Parkinvran (Gerrans) which was once owned by my grt.grt grandparents John bn 1786 and Susan Sawle bn 1791. I believe the house was owned by the Sawle line well before the 1700's (so the locals inform me) and that it was eventually lost in a game of cards.

I have some detailed records of my line going back to 1542, so if there is anything I can help you with on this line please do not hesitate to ask.

[IanD]

I found & read with interest the thread “Isaac Sawle from Gerrans Cornwall abt 1828”. I am a direct descendant from Isaac Sawle of Gerrans. I commenced doing a family tree some 7 years ago on the basis of information given to me by my mother Thelma Desoer (nee Sawle). She provided much information that I documented, then, due to pressures of work, I had little time to follow up on. However in the course of the next 12 months I hope to do much more and, as my mother is now 84 and would like to know more of her linage, I am hoping to trace even further back.

Since recording my mothers notes, information on the internet has improved no end and last night I thought lets just see if any information is returned for a query “Isaac Sawle 1828”. The result is this forum that not only confirms what I knew about my Great Grandfather (Isaac) but also the name of his first wife.

My Great Grandmother was Sarah (2nd wife to Isaac), and from the notes that I made from my mother, I was aware of 6 children in that marriage, the youngest one being James (my Grandfather) who was born November 18 1888. He married Maggie May Willan on July 7 1915 and had 2 daughters, Dorothy May & Thelma Kathleen Sawle. The latter born Feb 11 1924 is my mother.

I am very much aware that the family had strong ties with Cornwall, not only from the notes, but because as a 5 year old, my grandmother took me to stay with relatives on a farm in Cornwall that had been in the family for centuries. I believe this was called named Parton Vrane (but could be Parkinvran) and is situated at Gerrans or Portscathoe. It was owned by victor Ward whio I think is the son of Cissie Sawle (1st child of Sarah) & Victor Ward. The farm was close to the sea - because it was rumoured to have once had a smugglers passage and we also walked and got a small boat across to (I believe) Falmouth. The farm was later sold and the descendants moved nearby - I will try and get the details.

I have much more information than I have typed here. It would seem that that Derek, AnneP and I are related through our common Gt Grandfather (AnneP from the first wife). My mother met many of the family including some from the first marriage.

Between us we might be able to fill in a few more details of recent history as well as my particular goal to work backward in time. Especially as mother tells me that folklore suggests that the Sawle line goes back to the 11th century.

Incidentally, today December 31st, is the anniversary of my Grandfather James Sawle’s death in 1952, an event I was present at.

[John Slaughter]

Ian

Thank you for posting a message. You clearly are related to Derek and AnneP and if you would like to e-mail me, you will find my e-mail address in the Contacts section of our main website at www.sole.org.uk, I will let you have their e-mail addresses so you can make direct contact if you wish.

In our records we have seven children of Isaac's second marriage and I suspect the one you are missing is William Augustus born in 1883 but who died as an infant.

I think the property in Cornwall is called Parkinvran (but may also have an "e"). On the 1841 census it was occupied by John Sawle, his wife Susan and family and included Isaac aged 15 years. By 1881 the occupants were Thomas Sawle and his family. If the property had been in Sawle occupation for many years tracing the house history may also help with the genealogy.

I have noted the details regarding the descendants of James and would be interested in the further information you have.

John

[psawle]

Hi Anne,

John emailed me to say you were a decendant of Isaac Sawle. I have to say like you the Sole Society provided me with a substantial amount of information and over the last few years i have been able to build on it from my own research. My goal was to track back as far as i could the Cornish Sawles.

I am the decendant of Issac Sawle and Sarah Anderson, an American from Baltimore (picked up from the census) married 14-12-1876 which was Issacs second marrage. Issac and Sarah had 8 children, Charles bn 1878 Ethel bn 1880, Edith bn 1882, Ellen (Sarah Ellen) bn 1877, Emma bn 1886, William bn 1883, Nellie bn 1878 and James bn 1889. Charles was my grandfather.

I have a certified copy of the marriage certificate between Issac and Sarah.

His first marrage with Caroline on the Isle of White was an unconfirmed record I came across almost by accident and that was as much as I knew so your information is really interesting. I was especially interested to find out that they moved to Liverpool to Toxteth. Both marriages would seem to have started the only two lines of Sawles in Liverpool. I knew there was another line in Liverpool but unsure of its origins. This would explain it.

This line of Sawles go back to Gerrans in Cornwall beyond documented records. I visited the village of Gerrans in summer of last year and met a distant cousin who was able to provide me with a lot of information and a local historian who lives in nearby Portscathoe who was equally as helpfull.

The local church there has many on my ancestors (and yours i guess) buried there. I was also shown round a farm house called Parkinvran (Gerrans) which was once owned by my grt.grt grandparents John bn 1786 and Susan Sawle bn 1791. I believe the house was owned by the Sawle line well before the 1700's (so the locals inform me) and that it was eventually lost in a game of cards.

I have some detailed records of my line going back to 1542, so if there is anything I can help you with on this line please do not hesitate to ask.

Hi, My name is Philip James Sawle. I was born in Broadgreen, Liverpool in 1948 and lived at Knotty Ash. I was the fourth son of Cyril James Sawle (1910-2004). I understand that I too, am a direct descendant if Isaac Behenna Sawle through his first marriage to Caroline. His son, George Manley (1854-1894) had a son named George Burford Sawle (1881-1947) who was my grandfather. I have information of the line back to 1542 but my information is pretty scarce. Anything you could add would be very much appreciated.

[CHerdy]

They had two other children at the time of the 1881 census , Robert William Sims abt 1875, Caroline Manley/Marely Sims abt 1877.

The 1871 census shows Mary Ann Sawle living with her family in the Toxteth area of Liverpool and in 1861 they were living in West Derby. Both Censuses have her listed as the eldest daugher of Isaac Sawle abt 1828 from Gerrans and Caroline Sawle (nee??) abt1832 born in Exmouth. Other siblings to Mary were, George Manley Sawle b abt Sept 1854 on the Isle of Wight, Samuel John Sawle abt 1858 in Liverpool and Susan Sawle abt June 1859 in Liverpool. Both Censuses show Isaac Sawle as a Joiner.

I have found note of a marriage of Isaac Behenna Sawle in Oct/Nov/Dec 1851 taking place in the Isle of White (no confirmation of the name of his bride yet, but I presume this is to Caroline). I presume after the first 2 children they then moved from the Isle of White to Liverpool where their subsequent children were born.

I have the 1861 and 1871 census which shows the family together in Liverpool. I have found a registry of Death for a Caroline Sawle in 1874 (Q3), and a subsequent marriage of an Isaac Sawle to Sarah (either Watson or Anderson - not followed this up) in December 1876 in the Birkenhead area.

I have not seen the 1881 census but by 1891 they have an entry in the Walton on the hill district of Bootle with 6 children, Ellen (age 13), Charles (age 12), Ethel (age 10), Edith (age 9), Emma (age 5) and James (age 2). The first 4 children were born in Liscard in Cheshire and the latter 2 in Walton on the Hill. Isaac continued to be a joiner.

I am amazed I have found out this much in such a short space of time and if, as you say, the Gerrans line of Sawle goes back further then I will have a lot to tell my family.

Anne

Hi Anne,

I am a descendant of Isaac and Caroline SAWLE, through their daughter Susan. I think that I can also add a few details to what you've already provided.

Isaac's first wife Caroline was born Caroline MANLEY, which might suggest why one of her granddaughters was named Caroline Manley SIMS as you note above. Caroline SAWLE nee MANLEY was born in Exmouth, abt 1832, and died 3 Jul 1874 at the Ryde Infirmary on the Isle of Wight. From the description, the cause seems to be what we would now call Crohn's Disease. It must've been a dreadful way to die over an extended period, hence her return home to Ryde. As far as I can tell, her parents were George MANLEY (b: 1795 Ilfracombe, Devon) and a Johanna (b: 1792 Camborn, Cornwall).

Isaac and Caroline married at Ventnor, The Isle of Wight, on 18 Dec 1851. His marriage to Sarah ANDERSON was on 14 Dec 1876 in Birkenhead.

Susan SAWLE, my Gr.Gr.grandmother, was the daughter of Isaac and Caroline, born in Liverpool 24 Feb 1859. She subsequently emigrated to New Zealand about 1876, around the age of 17 years. It strikes me that this was the same year as her father's second marriage to Sarah ANDERSON, and that this may have been a prime motive for her emigration. I am yet to source a passenger list from the NZ Archives, or determine whether she migrated under a NZ government assistance scheme, as seems likely. It seems that the rest of her siblings remained to take up married life in Liverpool.

She married George Parker SHORT at Oamaru, NZ, in 1878 and had five children before her untimely death of valvular heart disease on 25 Aug 1899 in Wellington, NZ. I suspect that she had Rheumatic Heart Disease, which is nowadays considered to be a disease of poverty but may have been more widespread in the 19th Century. Her death certificate is the only documented recording of her parent's names, as NZ marriage certificates of that era were quite sparse in their information. The parent's names are most probably inaccurate (Samuel and Susan), as death certificates can be: no such parents exist in other records. I am as confident as I can be that Isaac and Caroline were her parents, given Susan's DOB and known origins in Liverpool. As was noted in another post, Isaac seems to be the sole source of Liverpudlian Sawles.

Susan is listed in some records as a 'nurse'. Two of her children died in infancy, two (Susan and Charles) subsequently had families in NZ, and one (my Gr.grandmother Jessica) migrated to Australia. It seems that Susan was well-loved, as the children published newspaper memorials to her for many years, whereas her husband G.P.SHORT died estranged from his family.

I hope that's of some interest and value. Thanks for your information regarding Mary Ann SAWLE, as I hadn't fully traced her subsequent marriage history.

Regards,
Charles.

[dicksawle]

My great grandfather was Samuel Sawle, my father and grandfather were William John Sawle and lived in Toxteth. Samuel I understand moved to Liverpool from Cornwall. Interesting that I moved to the Falklands in 1986 and recently the Duke of Kent visited and opened part of our new museum - the old blacksmith's shop built in 1840. As we were standing there, I saw a name above the door which had only just come to light due to the clean-up of the building for the opening ceremony and there is was "J. W. Sawle". Does anyone know of a Sawle who went to the Falklands in (I guess) the mid 1800's ? Fascinating co-incidence !